I've been playing around a lot with different softsynths and have made the decision that this year there will be no high end arranger purchase for me ala the Tyros or PA1x. Perhaps if the PSR3000 has a decent key feel, I'd possibly go there. Otherwise, I'll try to find a PA60 for a reasonable price or even ( sigh ) go back to a PSR2000 strictly as a backup to the PA80 for the live act.


I'm still happy with the PA80, and feel it still has everything I need so that I can express myself as an entertainer. An upgrade to the sound system is in order, but that will come in time as well.

It's time to upgrade the studio. I already have a Motif ES and PA80. I don't need any more hardware. I also have Sonar, Cool Edit Pro, and some other sequencing / audio programs, includiing the VST based SQ01, so for now I'll stick to those. If I ever go completely "pro" with this studio, then I'd likely give something like a "Pro Tools" setup some serious consideration. For now, that's on the backburner.

This year's funds are going primarily toward softsynths. For the price of a PA1x or Tyros, I can do some pretty awesome things in this computer. I have a modest but modern PC setup, and even with 512 mb of ram and 2.4 gig processor with and ASIO soundcard, and most of the unnecessary Windows programs removed, I see that there is plenty under the hood to run this stuff now, with no latency issues at all, and the ability to play what I want to play from a hardware controller.

That I'm purchasing the CS80V and Moog Modular V is already a given. The Novation V station and B4 ( B3 emulator ) are cool too and may come later. I'm liking Arturia Storm, Reason, the Pro 53 ( Prophet 5 emulator ) and a few others as well. I'm giving Tassman and Next I'm going to look at the sample based programs ( the giga studios, sampletanks, etc ) for that virtual "rompler" feel too.

Recently, Donny ( DNJ ) and I talked about software arrangers. Given the right controller setup, it could work very well and pretty much hassle free. Jos Maas OMB software does a good job in it's own right. The biggest downfall is that if you don't have a yamaha XG board / module to use as a sound module, you need to readjust every style to match your module. This is no fault of Jos' software. It's excellent, and with a dedicated controller that allows for adjustable midi cc messages, one can easily access every major arranger function needed. Rather, the shortcomings, if any, are dictated by the midi data from the yamaha based styles themselves. The SYXG50 software XG module is fair, but even my first PSR ( 530 ), had better sounds. To use the styles with my Motif ES, I have to tweak each one. I can add ( and have ) my Motif ES .ins file to OMB, so the patches are correct, but the rest of the settings ( Effects, levels, etc ) need work in order to get a pro sounding setup. I'd love to see someone take Jos idea and fuse it with a dedicated software synth or better quality XG module. If I had the programming skills, I'd like to give it a shot myself, because after years of tweaking synths, I think I can do a pretty good job with soundscapes, but my general computer programming skills are sorely lacking.

A computer arranger that I would actually use in a live setup really is in the realm of possibility, but I'd rather buy a completed all in one program then spend countless hours trying to tweak existing styles to match my sound modules.

I'm enjoying all these new possibilities so much. After going as far as I feel I could go with my arrangers for composing, I'm excited again. I see the palates of sounds and other tools that are available for me now that I could only dream of a few years ago. When I gauge all of this stuff, for the money I would spend or even less than the money I would spend on one PA1x or high end workstation or analog modeled synth ( my true love.. the analogs ) , I can turn this computer into one absolutely awesome synthesizer, and ... I think I will.

AJ

AJ,
I see nothing wrong going in the direction of softsynth.. There are some awsome programs out there, and with the PSR-2000, and PA-80 you'd have a great set up..... It would be great if there were several options for every keyboard. Imagine say a PSR-2000 available in keyboard, rack, and softsynth Wow that would be awsome. I've heard you music AJ and I think you're a very talented musician. I think the two boards you have now are great keyboards, and with the addition of softsynths you'd have one hell of a set up. Softsynths really have made music production so much easier too... Granted I love the arrangers, synths, and workstations, but none of those will give you the control over sequencing that a good computer based program will... I honestly think you should keep what you have. I do understand the issue with key feel.. The PSR's are terrible... Yamaha makes great keyboards, but they really need to do something about the keybeds..

Squeak

Softsynths and softarrangers are seem to be an excellent alternative to hardware, but is there any good softsynth that has good and solid "general" sound? I mean saxes, clarinet, organs, accordions, piano, guitars....
All the demos from softsynth I have heard are techno and very very synth oriented.

STAM

AJ,

You will get a better result (playing Yamaha styles) if you replace your software XG module with a SW1000XG soundcard. But it would be much better if you created your own styles adapted to both your music and the (soft)synths you are using. You can rip some tracks from existing midifiles and styles and then add you personal magic. Use the stylemaker tools in OMB. That is the only way to get a better sound than the hardware arrangers. Somethings just aren't for sale.

Jos

Will we ever be able to just use a 61 key Kb controller & a software arranger program...& acheive the same results,styles sounds, latency, etc etc as a stand alone Arranger KB in the furture...?
I sure hope so..

Boy wouldn't that be nice Dnj Imagine having a 2100 on your computer..... You'd be able to by one midi controller, and have several arrangers on your computer... Talk about saving space Then you could have a good dedicated program for recording all those great sounds..

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-05-2004).]

Oh! You're referring to software.

This is a very interesting topic that I haven't really investigated fully. Please keep us informed because this is something I think I could really get into.

It's possible now. I think that's basically what Wersi does.

Tell us more?? Wersi?

I think their entire system is built on software -- Windows to be exact. You can utilize any software you want. Not too familiar with the detals. You still have to have their keyboard.
DonM

Bluezplayer, once you start down the softsynth and soft arranger route you will never return to hardware - studio or live performance. The sound alone will overwhelm you. Yes, the control surface needs some work but you can easily get used to it. This is motivating me to continue enhancements on my system - wow!!!!

If you want to start with a relatively good sounding arranger system then sYnerGi GS would be a good start for the arranger sounds. You may need to adjust the volumns a bit but generally the Yamaha styles will sound fairly good. I wouldn't use the Yamaha SW1000XG soundcard - way way way way to much latency plus the sounds are not very good. It is better to use something like a softsynth and the above noted wavetable. For the melody/lead voices use something like Kontakt and professional instruments, e.g., VRSound Saxes, Bardstown Bosendorfer Piano, etc. or the softsynths you plan on getting.

You can tie all this together in a nice streamlined and efficient package with Brainspawn's forte Ensemble. You can load this and OMB or Live - Styler with the launch of Windows and be ready to play in 30 to 60 seconds. You can even include a vocal harmonizer in this setup. It works and works very well. I am operating a modest computer by today's standards at 3ms latency and computer usage at 55%.

The good news is that each person will build their own unique system. It doesn't get any better than this!!!

I don't want the SWxg1000. Aside from what Frank stated, I have heard others lament about latency issues as well and the consensus is that the sounds are better than the SYXG50, but still not that good.


Maybe some things aren't for sale, but.. a complete arranger system that included it's own pallette of sounds that would rival any of the current hardware would be if I had the programming knowledge and talents that you have Jos. I can dig up and create good sounds and improve upon them in my synths, software or hardware, but I have little knowledge of computer based programming.

I'm already blown away by the analog modeling in the CS80V and Moog Modeler Frank. I've yet to hear anything comparable in the current crop of hardware analog modeling synths, although the Moog voyager and a couple of others have great sounds of their own. But... the cost and particularly the flexibility of the soft stuff vs the top end hardware modeling synths makes all the difference in the world to me.

Really, a soft arranger isn't all that big a deal to me anyway. As I have stated before, I use very little of what any arranger can give me to compose, except maybe as a starting point to compare and contrast backing vs melodies. These days, I think mostly in terms of live play when I think of using an arranger, and what I already have suits my needs just fine. It's the wonderful variety of sounds and "sculpting " tools available in soft versions that I look forward to using. Also, I plan on keeping the Motif ES ( it's a great tool ) and the PA80, so as Squeak points out, I'll have for me what is the best of both worlds. Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts.

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-05-2004).]

AJ,

You don't need programming skills to achieve your goal. If you set up your system as Frank described then the only thing missing would be the styles to match your sounds. If you make your own styles you would have a unique sound. Not hundreds of styles for any imaginable request, but just a few for your "greatest hits".

Jos

Jos,

I don't want to make styles right now. I just want to make music. Done right, stylemaking takes a lot of time, sometimes more than creating an actual song from scratch. I've done enough of it to know. Even making a few is more than I want to deal with right now. I'd rather just spend my money on something I don't have to tweak the heck out of.

I'd like to see someone make a complete arranger program that I can just plug in and play in a live setup. Listening to some of the sounds coming from some of the soft synths and samplers that I've tried, I know it can be done. You're program is an excellent prototype of what the other half of the program should work like.

As I mentioned earlier, if I had the know how programming wise, then maybe I'd consider spending the time needed and do it myself, and turn it into a commercial venture. Unfortunately, I haven't the skills to do it.

AJ